This morning, I set out to file a bug report with Microsoft. All I wanted was a simple form on a web page to file a bug report for Outlook and Outlook Express*. I did a Google search for "microsoft bug". One of the top results is http://msdn.microsoft.com/bugs/default.asp, which has a nice big "Report a bug" link. That looked promising. I followed it and created the required Passport account. After signing in, I got a page allowing me to report bugs, but only for Microsoft's development programs (Visual Studio, Visual C++, etc.). Denied.
So, I Google'd for "microsoft bug report" and found a blog post titled "Mission: Impossible. Submitting a Bug Report to Microsoft". Fantastic. This morning, I'm Tom Cruise. I'm going to file a bug report.
Next, I searched around the Microsoft web site. Starting at http://support.microsoft.com/, I went to the Outlook 2003 Solution Center. Nothing. So, I went back and followed the link to Microsoft Support Services. Then, Personal Support. Finally, I got to the Outlook 2003 help and support site, only to find nothing about filing bugs, only information about contacting a support professional for 35USD. No, thanks. Then, I searched the Microsoft Knowledge Base. Nothing.
Back to Google. One of the other results for "microsoft bug report" is Bug Reporting Information And Links. The page was on members.tripod.com, but I figured I'd try it anyway. I followed a link there to "Visit the Microsoft Bug Reporting Webpage", which took me to http://support.microsoft.com/contactus/. Finally, a Microsoft page that talked about reporting bugs! I followed the link to the bug report page and got... a phone number.
Fine, if that's what it's going to take to file a bug report, I'll give them a call. So, I called 1-800-MICROSOFT. And that's where the problems started. The menu didn't have any option to file bug reports. The closest thing was technical support, so I went with that option. I eventually got a human who didn't understand that I didn't want support, I just wanted to file a bug report. He took down a lot of personal information, including a Windows XP product ID. I don't actually use Windows XP at the moment, so I had to borrow the product ID from another computer in the house. Then, he told me that I'd need to talk to someone in customer support. After explaining to him again that I just wanted to file a bug report, he said I'd have to get talk to customer support to file a bug report even if I didn't need support. And it'd cost 35USD. If they agreed that I'd found a bug, they'd refund my money.
By this time, I was already on the phone and it looked like I had no other option, so I said OK, I'll pay the money. He took my credit card information and transferred me to customer support. I explained the issue to someone in customer support and he said I should talk to someone in Outlook support. Fine. The guy in Outlook support started by asking for my Outlook product ID. Luckily, the Windows XP system I borrowed before also has Microsoft Office, so I borrowed the product ID from there. Apparently, you're entitled to two free support calls if you have a retail version of Microsoft Outlook. Unfortunately, we have an OEM version, so he told me again that I'd be charged 35USD and that I should talk to an Outlook technician. Optionally, I could send the bug report by snailmail**, but I opted to talk to the Outlook technician. So, he transferred me to the Outlook technician.
I described the problem to Kim (she was the first person that had a name I could pronounce), the Outlook technician. "Let me see how I can solve this for you," she responded.
"You can't solve this. I just want to file a bug report," I said.
"Ohh! OK, I'll file a bug for you."
"Is there any way I can track the bug?" I asked.
"Well, no, but I can have someone e-mail or call you later today."
"That would be great."
She took down a description of the problem, then we said our goodbyes. Fifty minutes, 35USD, and four humans later, I'd filed my first bug report with Microsoft. I don't think I'll be doing that again. Since I started this process, I've received six e-mails from Microsoft: one describing my new Passport account, one asking me to activate my Passport account, two receipts for 35USD (I hope that doesn't mean I paid twice), and two form mails from Kim, one saying she was taking charge of my case and one saying my case had been resolved by filing a bug report. I hope that means I get my money back.
* Curious what the bug was all about? Outlook and Outlook Express don't support RFC 2231, which describes how to send file attachments with international or long names via e-mail. If you send such a file attachment from a program supporting RFC 2231, such as Opera, Thunderbird, Kmail, or several other clients, the attachment name comes out as "ATT#####.dat", where "#####" is some random number.
I don't actually expect to see this bug fixed in any of the Microsoft's current products, but if they could at least read the filenames correctly in Windows Mail (which replaces Outlook Express in Windows Vista), that'd be a step in the right direction. Several other clients, such as The Bat! and many web mail systems (including Gmail) also don't support RFC 2231, so I'll be filing some more bug reports. Hopefully they won't be such a hassle.
** To send bug reports to Microsoft via snailmail, send a letter describing the problem to:
Product Name Development Group Microsoft Corporation 1 Microsoft Way Redmond, Washington 98052
where "Product name" is replaced by the name of the product you want to report a bug about. In this case, I would have used "Outlook".
Update (2006-03-22 9:51pm): A lot of people are giving me flack for calling this problem a bug and not a feature request. First, you probably only say that because I provided the solution. If I had just said that Outlook isn't displaying file attachment names with international characters correctly when sent from certain MUAs, you wouldn't be so quick to judge. And that's what the end-user sees. Software developers need to keep the user's perspective in mind when deciding if something is a bug report or a feature request. That's why I called it a bug.
I also could have said that Outlook is violating RFC 2045 - 2049 since those RFCs forbid the use of the =?charset?Q/B?text?= syntax in filenames, which is what Outlook sends and receives. RFC 2231 is the only way to encode such characters in MIME headers. Is it still a feature request? I say no.
And all that is beside the point. The point here is that I couldn't find a way to just file a bug report with Microsoft. I could have described another issue, but it would still have been just as hard to file a bug.
Note: Comments with a light blue background were made by the site owner.
No no no.
You don't get it, you're only supposed to submit bugs when the application crashes on you. ;) However, I'm surprised that she did not point you in the direction of their massive bug database and wish you a good day.
Maybe you could point me in
Maybe you could point me in the direction of the massive bug database? :P
Well..
To some extent. There is the knowledge base which is essentially a collection of error and problems that they have picked up on but you're right, there is no concrete "Bug/Glitch" database. None that I've found anyhow.
Ahh, I see what you mean.
Ahh, I see what you mean. Yeah, I searched the KB, but there wasn't anything I could find. Plus, I wanted to file a bug report, not find a solution.
Do you have an MSDN account?
Do you have an MSDN account?
Not that I know of.
Not that I know of.
smart
We should do this aswell to keep me from drowning in bug mails ;-)
File bug
File bug here:
http://connect.microsoft.com/
I'll have to check that out
I'll have to check that out later. One does wonder why none of the four people I talked to sent me there.
Connect is for beta programs / early adopters
Microsoft Connect seems to be for beta testers and early adopters of unestablished products, such as OneNote. Since Outlook Express is a well established product, Microsoft Connect does not offer it as a program. In addition, for any programs that are offered, you have to apply to participate in them. You can't just file bugs instantly.
Bloody customers
Fortunately they go away if you ignore them long enough.
I've gotten this treatment before. Microsoft is a bunch of willfully incompetent assholes. Now they haven't seen a dime in years. I won't even buy systems with XP Home preinstalled.
dude- you have integrity
I think I'm about there though myself. I am now excited over Linux systems and Mac systems. In the former case, at least the community is appreciative enouph to accept the gift of informed, concientious bug reports from a user base without CHARGING THEM!!, and if you are dealing with a free distro- your distro will be at least worth as much as you paid for it.
In the case of a Mac, my feeling is that will also be true- haven't gone there yet- though their laptops have me slobbering on my bib.
No charge to submit to Apple...
https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/RadarWeb.woa
You do have to sign up as and ADC member, but that is free, and hooks you up with the latest development tools.
Ask for a refund.
Microsoft, like most companies, charge for support on the front end of the call. If the problem turns out to be a bug they will refund the money. Just ask for your card to be credited. I've done this several times when I ended up needing a hotfix to resolve an issue.
I plan to. Kim said she put
I plan to. Kim said she put in a request to have my money refunded.
Another option is
... to call the CC company in time and request them to remove the billing from M$ then, because their product is faulty and doesnt work and on their support line you were sort of blackmailed and forced to agree to their biding otherwise the issue wouldnt even have been stored with M$. Then M$ has to write a letter to the CC company explaining in detail why they think the still have the right to charge you 35$, and under which circumstances they will refund you the money themselves. Since this involves more overhead than is worth (as the whole subject is questionable to being worth 35$) you might get your money back. Anyway, it is still questionable if M$ fixes or implements this.
Choice
"By this time, I was already on the phone and it looked like I had no other option..."
Sure you did. Hang up. While it makes sense for users to report bugs so that the product can be improved, it makes no sense to pay for the privilidge--especially since they aren't even promising they will fix it. There is no good excuse for Microsoft not having an easy to use web interface for this if the cost of humans is the issue. Clearly, if it took 4 humans to take your bug report, they also need to improve their processes.
Anyway, I have had similar experiences, so I do sympathize.
Michael
Yes, I could have hung up,
Yes, I could have hung up, but that wouldn't have gotten the problem solved. I filed this bug on behalf of Opera users, as well as Thunderbird, Kmail, Pine, etc users. Read through the Thunderbird and Kmail bugs reports.
So, there's no way for an end-user to report bugs, but there's also no way for a collaborator to report bugs either.
M$ Customer Service:
Hehe
Thats good :)
--
Welt-Blick
Bug?
You need to understand the difference between a bug and a feature request.
A bug is a documented feature of the application that does not work as documented, throws an error or causes the application or system to crash. What you are describing does not fit in this category.
A feature is something new that you would like to see added to an application.
Just because an email system doesn't support a specific RFC or only supports a subset doesn't mean it is a bug. In fact I am sure they will tell you this is not a bug and it is working as originally designed.
Of course you can argue that an email client should support all of the standards / RFCs that have been published... but I think this is unreasonable.
There's no place to send
There's no place to send suggestions on the Microsoft site, either. :P
Seriously, though, this issue is reported as a bug for several MUAs since the attachments don't show up correctly in Outlook. And Outlook users see this as a bug since they don't get the attachment names correctly.
The only reason I'd could lean to saying this might not be a bug is because I know the cause. If I didn't, I'd just say the my attachments aren't showing up right = bug.
And it's a good thing they charged you, too
Does Outlook's documentation state that it supports RFC2231? If it doesn't, then you didn't file a bug, you took up a lot of people's time (and wasted your own) to file a feature request, and the $35 was pretty cheap.
Imagine you're a freelance PC repair/install guy and you sell someone a computer with specifications that don't include a sound card. Then they call you up and want you to come over and diagnose why their computer doesn't play music. Then they want you to put a sound card in so it will. Are you going to do all that for free?
I think you got it backwards
He isn't demanding they include a new feature, but merely suggesting an idea. In your example about the computer tech, he knew it didn't have a sound card and called you up and suggested that many of the other computer brands have sound cards and that you might want to consider putting one in as standard. Why should the computer tech say anything other than 'thanks for the suggestion'? I mean, listening to your customers shouldn't be that hard.
I wonder how many Microsoft employees get paid to come up with ideas and innovate. I would imagine it would be something high on there list of priorities and free ideas should be welcomed. They should have a program set up to pay (perhaps with product) for the top ideas that get implemented in the next release. Paying $35 to suggest something is just not right.
Nope.
He wasn't suggesting an idea. He was filing a bug, which means that he is saying that Outlook is not performing a function it is intended to perform. And he's wrong, and Microsoft charges people who call the support line to "report a bug" for precisely this reason.
It's not listening to customers that is hard. Customers have many ways to contact Microsoft and give them feedback, not the least of which is the feedback box at the bottom of every single page of Office documentation, both on the computer and on the web. When you choose to call the personal support line and insist that you have a bug, which the tech cannot fix because the software in question doesn't support what you want it to do in the first place, you end up paying to have the tech listen to you.
Outlook is meant to display
Outlook is meant to display attachments properly. That's a feature it's meant to perform. It does not do that for certain attachments attached in a certain way. Therefore, Outlook is buggy.
MS's bug reporting is hit and miss. The ladybug system for Visual Studio/.NET Framework/related technologies is quite good. It's also easy to file a bug if you're an MSDN subscriber (post to the newsgroups under your managed identity; posting to their newsgroups with an unmanaged identity can be successful, but it's quite dependent on the product you're complaining about). Or on a beta programme. But if you're not using one of the products which has a sensible bug policy, it's far harder than it ought to be.
I can *sort* of understand it. They not unreasonably don't want every Tom, Dick, and Harry filing spurious bug reports, because it will cost them money. But still, it ought to be easier for legitimate reports.
I have to agree with DrPizza
I have to agree with DrPizza here. Outlook is meant to show file attachments correctly and it isn't.
Microsoft charges for support because people will call them because there mouse isn't rolling smoothly when it's dirty if they're given the chance. That isn't an excuse for not having a good place to go file a bug report. I work in a bug tracking system all day. No, all the reports aren't actually bugs in our software, but a good deal are. We're fixing bugs from end-users every day. We value those reports. Why wouldn't you want to be able to easily fix the problems users are having? This is just one of the sets of hoops users have to go through to report bugs in Microsoft software. That's the issue here.
Attachments
Not true. Outlook is meant to support attachments in formats it knows. There are hundreds of RFCs out there, and new RFCs are being published every day. And not every product claims to support all of them.
If Outlook claimed to support all possible attachment formats (even future ones) you might call this a bug. But it doesn't, and Outlook is behaving as expected, so it's not a bug.
You are right about it being reported wrong
You are right about it being reported as a bug and not a new feature. It took some digging but I found this website.
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/contactus.aspx?Sitename=0
It has a link to "Use our Make a Suggestion Wizard to submit ideas for any Office product or Office Online feature." I did follow it back. From www.microsoft.com, click Office on the left side, then click Assistance, then scroll down a bit and on the left hand side click Contact us.
I think this is a conflict of methods to solve bugs and add new features. In many open source projects, bugs and new features are put in the same place. Have a look at http://www.bugzilla.org/ and http://www.bugzilla.org/installation-list/ It’s a good model, IMO. The problem is that many people are now expecting a similar level of support from the older companies who have a different ideology.
Take a step back and think
Take a step back and think like a typical end-user. You receive an e-mail and you can't click on the attachment to open it. It always happens when you get mail from a particular person. That's what's going on here. I bypassed all that stuff because I know what the problem is and instead of getting support for fixing this issue, I told Microsoft how to fix it.
And that right there....
is why they charged you:
"I bypassed all that stuff because I know what the problem is and instead of getting support for fixing this issue, I told Microsoft how to fix it."
My issue, frankly, is with the misrepresentation you've made in your blog, in submitting it to digg, and in propagating the half-truth. It is not a bug from a software company's point of view, and if you really do work with bugs all day you should know that. If you know enough to be aware of that, using their SUPPORT system to file a BUG that is in fact a FEATURE REQUEST was your own intentional end-run around the system, and you've surely gotten more than $35 worth of press for yourself out of twisting the facts.
Please, for a second, forget
Please, for a second, forget that you know the issue I called them about. I was looking for a way to file a bug. Every indication was that bugs could be filed by calling 1-800-MICROSOFT. I talked to tech support. They said I could file a bug by talking to customer support. And that's what I did.
If you have any problem with these facts, please do the same Google searches, follow the same links, call the same phone number. All the information you need to verify my story is available in my post. There is no half-truth here and I'm not twisting any facts.
The nature of the issue is completely beside the point despite some people's insistence in dwelling on it.
Bad analogy.
I think your analogy is flawed.
A more correct one would be that you sell a system with a soundcard and they call you up saying that only the left speaker is working.
If Outlook says it supports other than US-ASCII (which it does) and it says it supports attachments (yes), then it certainly need to support funny filenames too. So this is a bug, not a feature request.
Could not quickly find on MS site anything on outlook and standards other than that one article says Outlook Express uses common internet email standards. This would include this bug too.
Feature request isnt the same as a bug report
$35 is cheap considering you were not even using a Microsoft product. Although if you called then and asked to make a suggestion for adding the standard to there product they would have taken that info for free ... and tossed it in the same garbage bin as your $35 request went.
To an Outlook end-user, this
To an Outlook end-user, this is a bug, not a feature request. I just know what the problem is.
That's a pretty silly
That's a pretty silly comment. To an end user, lots of things look like bugs but aren't. I can't receive an Outlook meeting request in pine, does that mean it's a bug? The simple fact is, if it's not a supported feature, then it's not a bug that they don't support it, whether YOU think it's a bug or not.
Your example is a bit off.
Your example is a bit off. Outlook supports file attachments, right? So, it's a bug when it doesn't show the file attachment name correctly, no?
No.
No. Outlook does not support long international file names for attachments, therefore it's not a bug. It's like saying "Outlook supports sending meeting requests, so it should support sending meeting requests to pine too".
"Attachments" is not one big feature. It's a set of features one of which is unsupported.
Actually, it does support
Actually, it does support international file names for attachments... if the mail is sent from Outlook, The Bat!, or some other MUAs.
Microsoft Does not have "support"
I have called 2 times in the past. Frist time, i wanted to complain about
the defect in the first xbox that were sold in the first few months, first lady i talked to , Did not know what the xbox was. When i said microsoft game stuido, (she looked at her script) and transfered me. Where the guy i talked to said a bunch of bull. Second time i called, i was formatting a computer for someone, and i needed a cd key for XP home. I was not using the one on my cd. So the laptop had a OEM key. I did not have an oem cd, so it would not accept the cd. I called microsoft asking to trade the oem key for a non oem key. after waiting, they said they could not. I should have said, "fine, ill just pirate a key. not like you care." So i ended up haveing to download an oem cd and was able to use the key on the backside of the laptop.
try this...
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/productfeedback/ - click 'Report a Bug', signin with your new-found passpord account and all should be well....on the other had it would make your life allot eaiser if you just bought a Mac. free bug reporter at bugreport.apple.com 8-)
I got a MacBook Pro last
I got a MacBook Pro last Monday. ;)
Incidentally, that page is a
Incidentally, that page is a redirect from http://msdn.microsoft.com/bugs/default.asp, the first site I went to. You can file bugs about Microsoft's development tools there, but not Outlook.
There is a send feedback
There is a send feedback under Outlook Express' help menu. May be you could've used that instead ?
Yeah OK
I don't know about you, but I get a 404 error from that nice gem of advice.
Ha!
Have you tried it on a mac? Worked fine for me! :)
yep,
i'm with anonymous up there. my family's long been fond of the phrase, "what? that's not a bug! it's a feature!" that microsoft seems to like. a lot. and i do think that they don't provide the support 'cause they'd get a bazillion e-mails a day.
WHAT?!
So you mean that microsoft DOES NOT support some international/internet community standard???! Stop the presses! You took four hours of your life and $35 to report a "bug" like this?
I feel your pain
You're lucky it was only a bug with Outlook Express. If it had been a critical bug with the actual OS, it would have cost you $150.
I've spent the past few months irritated that this comment somehow managed not to get selected for the Ask MS' VP of security interview, despite being modded as high as all the pathetic questions that did get asked:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=174307&cid=14501221
here's another 'bug'
XP Firewall does *not* (always?) promt you if you want to allow a port that has just been opened by an application to receive traffic from outside,
(stick with me for a minute) ...note that the application* is already opened, and listening, hardware firewall is properly set (VNC ports, same ports before the format), and I just finished installing the OS + basic apps and left for home, hoping I can continue the rest of the basic tweaking from there using VNC.
What programmer though it would be fun to pop up a windows firewall query to let half life 2 listen to ports beneath the launched game (-after- the game has launched, also happens to other games), and NOT query for allowing a port for a service you just installed.. (it doesnt ask several reboots down the line either).
of course it's all my fault I didnt just replace XP FW with zonealarm or TPF.
In your case I hope you get your 35, or.. 70 bucks refunded, else it's point blank robbery.
* RealVNC server. (Virtual Network Computing (VNC) is a desktop protocol to remotely control another computer originally developed by AT&T)